Apprently so if I have to deal with invisible evidence.

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It wouldn't be more than the rest of the teams put together, but we would have by far the largest fanbase in the Championship, and would 100% be the biggest club. Only teams who come close would be West Ham and Forest.

I'd throw Leeds in there too.

Celtic would easily be the largest team in the Championship and within a decade would establish themselves as a consistent top 8 EPL team. I think.

I think it's impossible to say. How would they adapt to facing high quality competition every week would be the main factor in the first couple seasons and they'd find it tough to attract players if they didn't find European football straight away. It's impossible to say for sure, but I could see them turning into an Aston Villa.

I disagree, playing in the Premiership is enough on it's own to attract high quality players. Newcastle bought Ba and Cabaye in the summer, West Brom got Shane Long, Fulham bought Bryan Ruiz in January - these were some of the best players in their respective leagues, and none of these teams were being widely tipped for European football at the start of the season. As I said before we're in a comfortable position financially, we would be able to attract quality players (as well as regularly producing 1 or 2 ourselves) and would have one of the biggest supports in the league - I really don't think we would turn into 'an Aston Villa'.

I have to agree with Luke on this one. Celtcis revenues according to their most recent Annual Report was £52.56 million. If they were parachuted into the Premier League I don't think it'd be all that surprising for that figure to double* that figure to around £105 million which would leave them around 19th in the Deloitte money league with the only Premier League teams above them being teams with recent Champions League football.



*Just so I don't get jumped on for that guess if you look at last season Blackpool finished bottom of the TV payment league and got £39million which is a £30 million or so more than what Celtic got from the SPLs TV deal. Given Celtics fanbase you could assume greater facility fees and push the TV figure closer to the £32million+ mark. I'm also assuming ticket prices and attendance levels at Celtic park would increase. If ticket prices were to increase by £5 a head a full house would net Celtic an extra £300,000 per match for instance. Add in improved shirt and sponsor deals just from being in the Premier League and I don't think an extra £50million in revenue is that outrageous a prediction.


Of course it could still go horribly horribly wrong if Celtic got into the EPL and spend big on shite players.

True, true- but let's face it, apart from Newcastle having a shockingly good season, those clubs can't attract a whole team of top quality players, just the odd one here and there. The thing is, Celtic do have a large amount of support and good finance, but so do a lot of clubs- is that enough to turn into a Top 8 team straight away? Probably not. I'm not saying it's impossible for them to get into the Europa League, but I think you'd have to say goodbye to the Champions League for a very long time.

The thing is though, I think it's very tough to say. I could be wrong or bang on, but we'll most likely never know. If Celtic want to jump into English Football, it'll be tough. Their best hope might be a team going out of business and agreed to take the spot next season. It's a big problem for them, though...If Rangers turn into a significantly weaker force, or liquidate, it's just as bad for Celtic if they're left marooned in Scotland. They and Rangers are recently feeling the effects of being in a stagnating league and it would only get worse.

I totally agree that we wouldn't be in Europe straight away and would have to all but forget about the CL for a good while at least. Me personally though, I would go to England in a second, hypothetically speaking of course.

I think it would be the best thing for the Club. In a weird kind of way, the rest of the SPL is almost holding the old firm back. If Rangers liquidate, some Celtic fans might cheer...but it'd ultimately leave a very large shadow over Scottish football which could lead to very bad things for it as a footballing nation.

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FORUM LEGEND

Or I could just hate breaking non-disclosure agreements that I need to abide by in order to keep my job? I'd appreciate it if you'd stop quoting and responding to me because you never do it to create discussion, only to infer mockery or create tension. It's bloody dull.
I'm posting in the Scottish football thread for fans of Scottish football - you have a faux interest in this matter and it's jarring when you relate everything to Portsmouth. There is very little you can gleam from Pompey's case that you could use as insight into this one as the circumstances and surroundings are completely different.

Paul Murray wants to take over the club and Whyte is guilty of defrauding his staff at Rangers for £5million, a total of £9million was withheld from HMRC via tax and VAT. £5million is from PAYE income tax, the rest VAT. That brings the total to £75million but Hearts, Rapid Vienna, Dundee United, Ticketus and the Rangers fans are all owed money - my total is roughly around £101million of debt.

Those are the bullet points - I don't have the time to explain it further but the media up here has it covered anyway. It should come out today.

As for the other comment, Celtic are the 8th "most supported" side in Europe but those figures only contain match-day attendees. They've got a world-wide fanbase that no other side in the Championship, and very few in the Premiership, can command. It's something that's underplayed by the English media, how big the Old Firm are. There's a supporters club in every corner of the world and the march to Sevilla in 2003 was just a glimpse at how fanatical and large that base is.

To back up Ginga's point slightly RE: fanbases, I know of at least one Celtic supporters clubs which number into the high hundreds in Melbourne. Also, I think there's one in Saskatoon. How many Doncaster Rovers fan clubs are there in Saskatoon?

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Well then why not say that in the first place?

Its got nothing to do with 'the English media'. I have my own opinions that I am allowed to have. I have never said Celtic aren't a big club, I've said they would be the most supported in the Championship, but your point on worldwide support probably wouldn't hold water in the Prem. A lot of the clubs have fan divisions in all parts of the world, many Championship clubs also do. Its undoubted theres a lot of potential at Celtic, but to target that top four you realistically and honestly probably need oil money unless a top-four side misfires, which is what is kinda happening with Chelsea to give the like of Tottenham, Arsenal and Newcastle a sniff. That would put Celtic roughly at the level of a Villa or Everton even after three to four years investment on Prem money, who consistently have been around eighth until this season - thats a realstic assessment based on reasoned thoughts - not the 'drivelling of a mad man'.

The Portsmouth situation is not exactly the same no, but I have been reading every single day about administration and debt and how it works for about two seasons now. The situation Rangers face seems to be a bigger version of what Portsmouth faced first time around. Its not similar to what they are facing now as Portsmouth are in a slightly bizarre situation where the club has a relatively small amount of debt in footballing terms, but the noose of debt on surrounding assets is what puts of a potential buyer to take the 'criminals' away. I find its better to relate my thoughts and musings to something I know well rather then fire several barrels and play guesswork. After all you have your 'sources' - why can't I use reasoned thoughts? I am offended that you think I have a 'faux interest' - I have a very real interest that I have been reading a lot of articles on the matter in the last 24 hours to try get up to speed on the matter.

I'd like to be able to have a reasoned discussion on either Celtic or Barca, but you don't half get on your high horse about either issue, both are untouchable in your eyes. Probably not best to be so biased for your 'job'.

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Will they be there if the Old Firm disappear? Honest question there? Is the glamour the derby? I'm sure it is for many who wear Boca/River Plate shirts abroad - or Olympiakos/Panathinaikos shirts...the core support will always be there, but how much core support is in those groups?

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To put it simply? No. Celtic are in the reasonably unique position of being supported by the vast amounts of Scots and Irish(mostly Catholic, in complete honesty) ex-pats who have moved abroad and reproduced like rabbits. We're particularly strong in Canada and Australia.

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If Celtic were to join the Premiership or Championship, their debt would be wiped instantly. Not that they would actually need the golden handshake to get back into the black...

They have a juggernaut of a brand, a whole franchise, that ties in religion and patriotism and politics and folklore, into the something the Lucky Charms' marketing executive always dreamed about. If Celtic can turn over the sort of money they are making whilst tucked away in what's quickly becoming an obscure station in European football, what sort of income could they generate if they had the exposure of the Premiership, which I think is the most watched professional league in the world?
K
Then you've got the history that so attracts misty eyed foreign talent and a wonderful, intimidating stadium along with a loyal, boisterous, cranky, reactionary support that demands the impossible less than the improbable, and it's a interesting and incredibly challenging team to play for. You only have to look at the quality and style of player they have attracted over the years to have a good hunch that more funds might bring in some rather special players now.

If your argument is about the top four and money, then which of even the top five is debt free? Manchester United have a goggly eyed amount due, 700 times at least what Celtic currently owe. Chelsea and Manchester City are working off the economics of an arcade cabinet, Arsenal are paying back a stadium and I wouldn't imagine the Gunners having the same numbers in terms of income as you might project Celtic would, Liverpool could be a club that benefit from it strangely. Those derbies would be well watched.

But beyond all that and cutting through a whole pile of red tape, Celtic have a billionaire owner.

Sure they have.

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Celtic have 9 million fans (est) around the world, inbcluding 1 million in North America. Comparing us to any Championship side or 16/20 Premier League sides is simply ridiculous.

It shouldn't matter how many fans a club has anyway, what matters is success on the pitch and the manner in which a club and the fans behave.

Right so, I've had time to think about Rangers' situation. But, unfortunately, I have been able to develop no sympathy for them. My father (a rangers fan) was almost in tears at the state of the club; "I knew it was coming, but the shock is still there". My uncle (a Celtic fan) is totally devastated by Rangers plight, he really wants them to pull through; "I don't want Glasgow to be a 1 club city like Newcastle, Cardiff, Lyon etc". The silence of Rangers fans in this thread is very unfortuate, I'd love to hear their opinions on the matter.

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They probably don''t fancy it because the Celtic fans will just gloat and take the piss.

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eat gooseberry fool glowy