Israel-Gaza Conflict

Vermilion wrote:Also, the blatant targeting of civilians by Hamas has been utterly vile.

Wait until you hear what Israel does.


Joking aside I predict this thread will either die as everyone avoids talking about it, or go absolutely off the rails.

Hexx wrote:I predict this thread will either die as everyone avoids talking about it, or go absolutely off the rails.

Definitely agree with this, it's such a divisive issue that it could easily go either way.

Vermilion wrote:

Hexx wrote:I predict this thread will either die as everyone avoids talking about it, or go absolutely off the rails.

Definitely agree with this, it's such a divisive issue that it could easily go either way.

Are you trying to do a "both sides" argument on the apathy of GRcade?

I'm pro Palestine but the atrocities that Hamas have carried out need to be condemned, horrific, you can be angry about both, occupation and apartheid of millions of people for over 50 years is also abhorrent.

America's and the UK's unwavering support of Israel is sickening, Even the EU turn a blind eye.

Photek wrote:I'm pro Palestine but the atrocities that Hamas have carried out need to be condemned, horrific, you can be angry about both, occupation and apartheid of millions of people for over 50 years is also abhorrent.

America's and the UK's unwavering support of Israel is sickening, Even the EU turn a blind eye.

Pence called it an "unprovoked" attack this morning.

People wonder why history isn't that popular at school now and it's because we learn about motte and bailey castles instead of why Israel and Palestine are knocking the gooseberry fool out of each other. It's such a complicated situation and I honestly don't feel that well equipped to form a strong opinion either way, and when I try to learn more I'm not sure if I can trust the source because it might skew one way or another in a way I don't realise. I'm currently listening to James O'Brien as I normally do on a Monday and you know there are going to be fundamentalists from both sides calling in today.

I obviously deplore what Hamas have done to Israeli civilians, but then Israel have done despicable things to Palestinians in the past. From the early posts in here it sounds like Israel are potentially going to ethnically cleanse Palestine, which is so bitterly ironic it's hard to fathom. And yet the west is seemingly cheerleading this instead of loudly calling for the resumption of talks towards a two-state solution, which to my limited knowledge is the only humane resolution to the issue.

The Israeli Palestinian conflict is thaught in Irish schools. It's not actually that complicated when you boil it all down.

I'm already sick of people discussing this at work as if the conflict only started a couple of days ago. And yeah, everyone on the news acting like it did isn't helping.

Photek wrote:I'm pro Palestine but the atrocities that Hamas have carried out need to be condemned, horrific, you can be angry about both, occupation and apartheid of millions of people for over 50 years is also abhorrent.

America's and the UK's unwavering support of Israel is sickening, Even the EU turn a blind eye.

Great post. That's pretty much where I am on the issue. The Israeli government is responsible for appalling crimes. As are Hamas.

It's hard to see how it can ever be resolved either. I don't see either side ever conceding anything at all to the other.

Photek wrote:The Israeli Palestinian conflict is thaught in Irish schools. It's not actually that complicated when you boil it all down.

It may be taught in schools later on but I certainly didn't learn it before I dropped history as a subject. This is arguably so important everyone should understand it.

Some absolutely horrendous footage coming out of Israel.

What Hamas did on Sunday is inexcusable and shouldn't be defended, but with the way Israel has been treating Palestinians over the years it's not really a surprise that we have seen this sort of reaction.

I just despair at how gooseberry fool the human race can be to eachother. It's just a cycle of hatred that looks set to repeat benefitting none of populations. IMO other countries funding Israel need to take a much stronger line with its behaviours. They have a right to protect themselves. They don't have a right to displace, terrorise, and reenact their own Hollocaust onto another Nation.

Dowbocop wrote:

Photek wrote:The Israeli Palestinian conflict is thaught in Irish schools. It's not actually that complicated when you boil it all down.

It may be taught in schools later on but I certainly didn't learn it before I dropped history as a subject. This is arguably so important everyone should understand it.

Agreed.

twitter.com/miqdaad/status/1711292818168172827

Pretty grim gooseberry fool.

twitter.com/NathanJRobinson/status/1711185184177975447

Haaretz, Israel's main liberal newspaper, going after Netanyahu and the far right members of his government as being responsible for getting the conflict to this point.

I think anyone who suggests Hamas has ruined the prospect of a peaceful solution with their vile terror attacks at the weekend are being disingenuous at best. The Israeli government were nowhere near offering the Palestinian people a legitimate state or ending a fifteen year blockade. You would hope that it's this internal pressure on the government that prevents all out genocide on the people in the Gaza Strip, since Israel's allies have been pretty clear that any retribution on their part against Hamas and the wider population of Gaza is entirely justified.

Hopefully all those hostages can get released as soon as possible.

Photek wrote:I'm pro Palestine but the atrocities that Hamas have carried out need to be condemned, horrific, you can be angry about both, occupation and apartheid of millions of people for over 50 years is also abhorrent.

America's and the UK's unwavering support of Israel is sickening, Even the EU turn a blind eye.

Yup it's this.

Palestinians have definitely suffered much more for much longer, but you can still think that what Hamas have done/are doing here is equally classed as horrific and should be condemned. I know people say you shouldn't both sides things but genuinely both sides of this conflict are horrifically evil (the Israeli government/IDF and Hamas) and the only people who end up suffering at the hands of both of their decisions is innocent people on both sides of the border.

America and the UK caused this mess by setting up Israel like we did in the first place without making sure both were fully fledged countries. That's why both of us are refusing to do anything about Israel at this point, we know we're to blame initially. That and the Zionist terrorists who killed a huge amount of innocents in the British Mandate for Palestine managing to essentially get a lot of power in Israel to begin with. It set the course of history pretty much.

Photek wrote:The Israeli Palestinian conflict is thaught in Irish schools. It's not actually that complicated when you boil it all down.

It’s extremely complicated to find any solution though. Both sides are much more radical than they’ve been in the past because that’s what helps keep Netanyahu in power and helps Hamas get funding. The only hope for a Good Friday-style peace agreement vanished in 2000 at Camp David. It’s going to get a lot, lot worse this week and beyond.

Qikz wrote:

Photek wrote:I'm pro Palestine but the atrocities that Hamas have carried out need to be condemned, horrific, you can be angry about both, occupation and apartheid of millions of people for over 50 years is also abhorrent.

America's and the UK's unwavering support of Israel is sickening, Even the EU turn a blind eye.

Yup it's this.

Palestinians have definitely suffered much more for much longer, but you can still think that what Hamas have done/are doing here is equally as horrific and should be condemned. I know people say you shouldn't both sides things but genuinely both sides of this conflict are horrifically evil (the Israeli government/IDF and Hamas) and the only people who end up suffering at the hands of both of their decisions is innocent people on both sides of the border

No. You can condemn both. You can say one is bad and one is worst. But the imbalance is so hilariously one sided in every metric. Presenting it as equal is to remove the systemic genocide and war crimes by the oppressor - one of the most advanced military nations in the world.

It's something horrendously daft like 23 out of every 24 civilians killed in the "conflict" is Palestinian.

twitter.com/austin_walker/status/1711058322458083621

Dowbocop wrote:It may be taught in schools later on but I certainly didn't learn it before I dropped history as a subject. This is arguably so important everyone should understand it.

My GCSE history syllabus was probably unusual as it included the Israel Palestine history (and the Atlantic slave trade, American Civil Rights movement and the Vietnam war).

Although I think it's often the case that the history syllabus goes something like this:

1066
Magna Carta
Henry VIII
WWI
Inter-war years (largely USA and Germany, not much on the USSR)
WWII

A broader knowledge of history that doesn't skip centuries, even if it allows less time to study specific areas in greater depth does seem a better balance to me.

I'm not sure if any GCSE history course has a module on Northern Ireland, which is more relevant to school students in the UK than Israel & Palestine.

Hexx wrote:

Qikz wrote:

Photek wrote:I'm pro Palestine but the atrocities that Hamas have carried out need to be condemned, horrific, you can be angry about both, occupation and apartheid of millions of people for over 50 years is also abhorrent.

America's and the UK's unwavering support of Israel is sickening, Even the EU turn a blind eye.

Yup it's this.

Palestinians have definitely suffered much more for much longer, but you can still think that what Hamas have done/are doing here is equally as horrific and should be condemned. I know people say you shouldn't both sides things but genuinely both sides of this conflict are horrifically evil (the Israeli government/IDF and Hamas) and the only people who end up suffering at the hands of both of their decisions is innocent people on both sides of the border

No. You can condemn both. You can say one is bad and one is worst. But the imbalance is so hilariously one sided in every metric. Presenting it as equal is to remove the systemic genocide and war crimes by the oppressor - one of the most advanced military nations in the world.

It's something horrendously daft like 23 out of every 24 civilians killed in the "conflict" is Palestinian.

twitter.com/austin_walker/status/1711058322458083621

Sorry I worded that badly I meant to say more equally classed as horrific.

What Israel has done over the years is definitely on another level. Still, it doesn't stop this being worthy of condemnation.

Qikz wrote:

Hexx wrote:

Qikz wrote:

Photek wrote:I'm pro Palestine but the atrocities that Hamas have carried out need to be condemned, horrific, you can be angry about both, occupation and apartheid of millions of people for over 50 years is also abhorrent.

America's and the UK's unwavering support of Israel is sickening, Even the EU turn a blind eye.

Yup it's this.

Palestinians have definitely suffered much more for much longer, but you can still think that what Hamas have done/are doing here is equally as horrific and should be condemned. I know people say you shouldn't both sides things but genuinely both sides of this conflict are horrifically evil (the Israeli government/IDF and Hamas) and the only people who end up suffering at the hands of both of their decisions is innocent people on both sides of the border

No. You can condemn both. You can say one is bad and one is worst. But the imbalance is so hilariously one sided in every metric. Presenting it as equal is to remove the systemic genocide and war crimes by the oppressor - one of the most advanced military nations in the world.

It's something horrendously daft like 23 out of every 24 civilians killed in the "conflict" is Palestinian.

twitter.com/austin_walker/status/1711058322458083621

Sorry I worded that badly I meant to say more equally classed as horrific.

What Israel has done over the years is definitely on another level. Still, it doesn't stop this being worthy of condemnation.

Ah sorry if it felt like I leapt on you a bit then

Hexx wrote:

Qikz wrote:

Hexx wrote:

Qikz wrote:

Photek wrote:I'm pro Palestine but the atrocities that Hamas have carried out need to be condemned, horrific, you can be angry about both, occupation and apartheid of millions of people for over 50 years is also abhorrent.

America's and the UK's unwavering support of Israel is sickening, Even the EU turn a blind eye.

Yup it's this.

Palestinians have definitely suffered much more for much longer, but you can still think that what Hamas have done/are doing here is equally as horrific and should be condemned. I know people say you shouldn't both sides things but genuinely both sides of this conflict are horrifically evil (the Israeli government/IDF and Hamas) and the only people who end up suffering at the hands of both of their decisions is innocent people on both sides of the border

No. You can condemn both. You can say one is bad and one is worst. But the imbalance is so hilariously one sided in every metric. Presenting it as equal is to remove the systemic genocide and war crimes by the oppressor - one of the most advanced military nations in the world.

It's something horrendously daft like 23 out of every 24 civilians killed in the "conflict" is Palestinian.

twitter.com/austin_walker/status/1711058322458083621

Sorry I worded that badly I meant to say more equally classed as horrific.

What Israel has done over the years is definitely on another level. Still, it doesn't stop this being worthy of condemnation.

Ah sorry if it felt like I leapt on you a bit then

Honestly it's an example of me re-reading my post and editing it so much before posting that I made it worse than if I'd just sent what I initially wrote.

I basically at one point destroyed any relationship I had with my step mum over this, she's initially Uzbeki but her family moved to Israel when she was around 20 and lived there for 20 years. She's deep in the propaganda mill and she would not accept that anything the Israeli government was doing was wrong, to her it was all just Israel's right to defend itself.

I got in so many arguments with her about it that essentially she wouldn't even talk to me for ages. Thankfully our relationship as a family is a bit better now, but I just gave up trying to talk to her about this kind of stuff as it's clear 20 years of conditioning by the Israeli media to essentialy paint any view that isn't there's as either anti-semetic or some kind of anti-israel media bias in the west has basically made it impossible. I took the L, understand that her viewpoints come from the place she lived and just don't bring it up, because at the end of the day as much as I feel strongly against what the Israeli government is doing for the sake of my mental health I need a supportive family.