GRRR FEMINISM and stuff - New Video Released. Fade mad.

melatonin wrote:It's notable that Cracked managed to do pretty much this exact same thing with Disney films in their excellent After Hours series (http://www.cracked.com/video_18506_the- ... -kids.html) without the response descending into the vein of vile misogyny that Sarkeesian has somehow tapped into. Admittedly the tone is more comedic than essay-like, but still. That's gamers on the Internet for you I guess.

I'd have loved to seen something like that personally. This first video came across as a very dry lecture, particularly compared to the LEGO video posted.

Lotus wrote:The toys you play with don't determine your career.

Of course. Just like all the computer scientists and programmers who never touched a keyboard until the age of 16.

No, wait...

melatonin wrote:

Lotus wrote:The toys you play with don't determine your career.

Of course. Just like all the computer scientists and programmers who never touched a keyboard until the age of 16.

No, wait...

He's right, I didn't grow up to become a Ghostbuster.

You could have done, if only you'd tried a little harder in school.

I guess all those play-kitchens that are marketed at girls explain the real dearth of male chefs we have.

Lotus wrote:I guess all those play-kitchens that are marketed at girls explain the real dearth of male chefs we have.

No, but it is one of the many reasons why cooking in the home was (and depending on where you live, still is) traditionally viewed as a woman's role. So yeah, great example!

If you're a rapper, you probably listened to rap music as a kid. If you're a game developer, you probably grew up playing video games. It's not a coincidence that Martin Scorcese ended up being a director after having spent most childhood in cinemas. Honestly mate, this isn't rocket science.

Bigerich wrote:Boris laying the smackdown! Well done.

Yeah well

If there's one thing I know its my Lego, and from the get go her arguement is flawed.

Gf and step sister play(ed) with Lego and games that are full of supposed gender tropes all the time and they're hardly freakish examples of the fairer race.. Perhaps even that phrase is sexist lol.

I don't see how these observations are anything less than painfully obvious facts of a predominantly male developed product marketed at males. So any point that extends beyond that might aim to address a broader issue of gender representation that is not only staunchly feminist.

melatonin wrote:

Lotus wrote:I guess all those play-kitchens that are marketed at girls explain the real dearth of male chefs we have.

No, but it is one of the many reasons why cooking in the home was (and depending on where you live, still is) traditionally viewed as a woman's role. So yeah, great example!

If you're a rapper, you probably listened to rap music as a kid. If you're a game developer, you probably grew up playing video games. It's not a coincidence that Martin Scorcese ended up being a director after having spent most childhood in cinemas. Honestly mate, this isn't rocket science.

Well duh. But then why are most professional chefs men if cooking toys are quite often targeted at women.
That surely has to be something to do with how male and female brains work. Something to do with women preferring lower stress jobs as compared to men possibly? And if that is the case it's probably because for as long as humans have existed men have been the hunter gatherers and women have been the carers. So we have evolved to cope better with those roles.

I mean everyone has the same classes in school. Yet science is still pretty male dominated. COuld it be maybe that science just appeals to the male brain more? Because I certainly didn't play with science stuff as a kid but I'm still very interested in it.

EDIT:

Brerlappins little hat wrote:

kommissarboris wrote:

Dalagonash wrote:The LEGO Friends line is rubbish though, she got that right.

Its not any worse than the ninjago stuff imo, its all aimed at very young children, with very little building in it.

As I said, I had to get that Olivia's house for someone for xmas, its an okay build, all modular once its done. Has a few nice features which could be used if you're a city builder.

Ain't no Pirate ships though

Thats whats retarded about that video, think of the coolest Lego sets from back in the day, i had Pirate Islands, Knigts Castles, and a Train Station. Now why on earth would they possibly market those more toward boys than girls?? IT IS A MYSTERY Almost as much of a mystery as why theres no Barbies marketed toward boys. THATS SEXIST THAT IS!

Action man/GI Joe was the equivalent.

Of course, the fact that they don't make those anymore speaks volumes about the inherent truth of your statement.

Mind you, there's no denying that he was in every way as sterotypical a portrayal of a man as you could get, and so every bit as sexist as Barbie.

Fade wrote:

melatonin wrote:

Lotus wrote:I guess all those play-kitchens that are marketed at girls explain the real dearth of male chefs we have.

No, but it is one of the many reasons why cooking in the home was (and depending on where you live, still is) traditionally viewed as a woman's role. So yeah, great example!

If you're a rapper, you probably listened to rap music as a kid. If you're a game developer, you probably grew up playing video games. It's not a coincidence that Martin Scorcese ended up being a director after having spent most childhood in cinemas. Honestly mate, this isn't rocket science.

Well duh. But then why are most professional chefs men if cooking toys are quite often targeted at women.
That surely has to be something to do with how male and female brains work. Something to do with women preferring lower stress jobs as compared to men possibly? And if that is the case it's probably because for as long as humans have existed men have been the hunter gatherers and women have been the carers. So we have evolved to cope better with those roles.

I mean everyone has the same classes in school. Yet science is still pretty male dominated. COuld it be maybe that science just appeals to the male brain more? Because I certainly didn't play with science stuff as a kid but I'm still very interested in it.

Science is male dominated? Maybe, but not for long as girls are now surpassing boys in most science subjects in schools. Used to be girls outperformed boys in non-science but as the gender divide narrows they are less put off by studies seen as traditionally male and are making ingress there too.

Also, I find it funny that you think men are better at dealing with stress despite having far higher suicide rates than women. IMO, it seems that women are better at dealing with stress as they generally manage many more commitments, such as juggling caring for family members and working, than we do while being less likely to suffer mental problems. Actually, most studies done into stress back me up on this one; women just cope better for whatever reason. Some thing its something to do with hormonal differences.

melatonin wrote:

Lotus wrote:I guess all those play-kitchens that are marketed at girls explain the real dearth of male chefs we have.

No, but it is one of the many reasons why cooking in the home was (and depending on where you live, still is) traditionally viewed as a woman's role. So yeah, great example!

Cheers.

As far as I know, there's nothing stopping girls playing with these toys if they want to, and nothing stopping them from taking courses like engineering and physics and whatever else to get into jobs in those fields. If they're interested in it, they've got the opportunity to do it.

Unless you feel it's important that more women do it, regardless of whether they want to or not. And cooking may be viewed as a woman's role by some, but there are still lots of things that are viewed as being men's jobs as well. Plenty of men and women ignore these stereotypes, and the longer they do that, the more they'll die out, which'll be good for everyone.

@Meep

Didn't say men were better than women. Just the fact that more men choose to go into a career in it.
Women are better than men at a lot of academic subjects, but that doesn't mean they want to have a career in them.

Men have higher suicide rates because they often use violent methods such as hanging, shooting or jumping off of tall buildings. Where as women tend
to do things such as try to overdose which has a lower success rate.
And it could also possibly be because in society men are expected to just deal with things. They are expected to be fine by themselves and not need any support.
This leads to a build up of emotions that finally overflow. You don't know really.

TheTurnipKing wrote:

Brerlappins little hat wrote:

kommissarboris wrote:

Dalagonash wrote:The LEGO Friends line is rubbish though, she got that right.

Its not any worse than the ninjago stuff imo, its all aimed at very young children, with very little building in it.

As I said, I had to get that Olivia's house for someone for xmas, its an okay build, all modular once its done. Has a few nice features which could be used if you're a city builder.

Ain't no Pirate ships though

Thats whats retarded about that video, think of the coolest Lego sets from back in the day, i had Pirate Islands, Knigts Castles, and a Train Station. Now why on earth would they possibly market those more toward boys than girls?? IT IS A MYSTERY Almost as much of a mystery as why theres no Barbies marketed toward boys. THATS SEXIST THAT IS!

Action man/GI Joe was the equivalent.

Of course, the fact that they don't make those anymore speaks volumes about the inherent truth of your statement.

Mind you, there's no denying that he was in every way as sterotypical a portrayal of a man as you could get, and so every bit as sexist as Barbie.

The reason they don't make Action man and Gi-joe any more is because kids moved on.

Nothing to do with genderised toys. I had GI-joes, then I went on to other toys because I got bored with them, as I did with transformers, Turtles, Ghostbusters and countless more, infact IIRC I stopped playng with GI-joes because I got really into Zoids for a short while.

They'll come back, they did for the GI joe movie, same with transformers and currently Turtles.

Action man died a horrible death because of two reasons, firstly he had no one to fight, no good baddies like cobra. Secondly they gayed him up to be a strawberry floating mountain climber or snow boarder.

Its like those British army soldiers/action men you can buy, see them in Toys r Us and Tesco alot, I can't help but think if I was 8 again, I'd want some bad ass Taliban action men to fight against my British soldier in full desert DPM.

kommissarboris wrote:If I was 8 again, I'd want some bad ass Taliban action men to fight against my British soldier in full desert DPM.

That's a Daily Mail outrage waiting to happen.

strawberry float the mail

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/03/d ... ves-mario/



It's all sorted now.

She slightly wrong when she talks about the medieval literature showing women as a damsel, it wasn't until later in the Victorian era that view of women came to prominence.

EDIT: I quite liked the video I though she had a point especially as I cannot think of a game or movie where a male 'damsel' is captured and it is up to a female protagonist to save him.

lex-man wrote:She slightly wrong

About everything, which makes most arguments like hers seem misguided. Cherry picking and ignoring the science while cornering off portions of history that fit the agenda. There are issues but boiling it down to one cause or one solution is far too basic. Her idea of inequality seems vague; she's grabbing at historical examples that aren't true but refuses to go even further back to find out why certain stereotypes exist or if they are as harmful as she's really suggesting.

That cartoon showing the little girl being handed the dolly while the boy becomes an engineer goes both ways. Why aren't boys encouraged to play with dollies? Dress them, pretend to feed them, take them for a walk in a buggy? The process of having a doll has been proven countless times over to be beneficial in a child's development and can shape attitudes when they grow older. What's wrong with playing with dolls (essentially learning the most essential skills we have as human beings) that they should be sneered at? Or are all men supposed to be captains of industry, in love with manual labour and grunting construction?

I see the humour but how many mothers buy their daughters a doll? Do they buy their sons dolls? Sexism! Again, the argument that this is primarily the fault of "men" seems illogical because you'd need to ignore science. Choices are made on both sides, it's rarely tempered by equality but rather necessity, yet parents often do try to find a balance. Roles are fulfilled, most of them are not created to undermine or dehumanise. If she genuinely wants to change things then it's self-indulgent to address the issues that frustrate her in favour of tackling a wider problem that harms both sexes and obviously a far larger number of people.

Kids will play with what they like, what their friends like. Should we force little girls to play with buckets of Technic and little boys Barbies even if they hate it, just to prove a point or hope it leads to the possibility of further diversification of gender roles in the future? There's something in there about making little boys wear dresses too, probably.

What she's doing is endless - no wonder she wanted $6000, you'd need to commit full-time to vlogging every single inaccurate caricature from the past. It doesn't end, it's impossible to satisfy that mindset. If enough women spend their time poured over glossy magazines picking out the flab on other women, what changes if Lego produce 'less pink' girl's toys? It's noted that she's wearing a pink t-shirt in that video too.

Just feels odd to judge modern men on toys and games from 30 years ago. She's trying to draw a line that shows some form of institutionalised sexism that men can't shake. It's not true. Anything that addresses "men" or "women" as a whole is usually full of sweeping generalisations and inaccuracies, most people know this. A lack of education or purposeful misuse by corporations looking to sell something is not the same thing. Oversimplification passed off as the definitive word makes it difficult to take anything she has to say seriously.

I swear if she says trope one more time in that video....