Epic Star Trek Re-Watch - Voyager - Season 3 Week 6!- "Displaces" to "Scorpion - Part 2"

Moggy wrote:
Cheeky Devlin wrote:
Moggy wrote:
Cheeky Devlin wrote:Gets plus points for making Neelix suffer.

Let's not start the Neelix slander so early on.

If anything it's not started soon enough.

The Cloud

The talk of Native American spirit animals sounded like bullshit, so I looked it up. Chakotay's actor isn't Native American and the guy hired as a consultant lied about his ancestry for years, despite being exposed in 1984 he still blagged his way into this job. :fp:

If they don't have enough power to make a coffee, why are the holosuites still open for use? :lol:

Probably the worst episode so far, but not awful. Haven't we seen a giant living cloud in space before?

Eye of the Needle

I'm with Kes, the Doctor is a prick but who wouldn't be after dealing with the ungrateful pricks in the crew.

Great episode, easily the best so far.

I thought at the end that the Romulan was going to be trapped/get killed in the transporter. It was actually more of a gut punch than that! Died 4 years before sending the messages, hopefully he left them with somebody else to send.

I think they were daft to not go back with him. Stay away from the Federation for 20 years and then go back once they know their future selves have vanished. Better to spend 20 years hiding, than 75 years travelling!

Ex Post Facto

Meh.

It reminded me of the Next Gen episode where Riker was on trial for murder. I can't remember what I thought of that one, but I hated this one. :lol:

Emanations

I've not even got to the credits yet, but it looks like they're in Shelob's lair. I hope they find the ring before the orcs get their hands on it!

Ok, it was nothing like that. :lol:

I liked this, the mystery of death/the afterlife was handled well, not coming down on either side. The actor playing Kim is usually a bit wooden but he did well. Janeway is fantastic, Mulgrew is a great actress.

So far, Voyager seems to like wormholes and dimension shifting. I don't know if that theme will continue, but it might be good to give it a break for a bit, before it all gets a bit too samey.

The Cloud
Enjoyed this one more than Moggy seemed to, although being aware that basically anything to do with Chakotay's heritage is bullshit probably helped to mitigate that aspect of the episode.

Janeway gets some great lines in this, playing off the rest nicely particularly Neelix. Though it didn't take her long to stop caring about people calling her "ma'am" - she chewed Harry out for it in the pilot but doesn't bat an eyelid at Paris using the term multiple times here. Standards obviously slipping in the Delta quadrant!

Agree that them firing up the holodeck whilst apparently struggling for power is a bit hard to swallow, but the scenes are fun there so it can slide.

One thing which is starting to set in now is just how much more proactive/dynamic they are trying to make the formula, even if it's just in small ways. From a certain perspective this show is going back to what TOS/TNG we're doing - encounter of the week stuff, exploring new worlds etc. But they definitely spend a bit less time talking about things and more time doing stuff. Where Picard would have got everyone in the conference room to sit around a table while Data/Geordi talked through something with the aid of a nice PowerPoint here Janeway just keeps people at their posts and they come up with a plan "in situ"

Also, another case of Trek imitating Dwarf with Neelix appointing himself as Morale Officer as well

Neelix is probably one of the few creatures in the galaxy who could give Arnie Rimmer a run for his money in terms of bringing morale down to be fair! Although he does make a solid point in this episode - Janeway needs to stop getting distracted by any random gooseberry fool they see in space and concentrate on getting home. This whole episode was a massive distraction from that task just because she wanted a coffee! :lol:

EDIT: Nearly forgot - have to give a shout out to Robert Picardo for his excellent work as the EMH in the background where they mute him during their discussion. He milks it for everything! :lol:

Moggy wrote:If they don't have enough power to make a coffee, why are the holosuites still open for use?

Fyi the holodeck has a separate power source that isn't compatible with anything else. They mention it later on

A Cuchi Moya! :slol:

No:1 Final Fantasy Fan wrote:
Moggy wrote:If they don't have enough power to make a coffee, why are the holosuites still open for use?

Fyi the holodeck has a separate power source that isn't compatible with anything else. They mention it later on

A Cuchi Moya!

Which makes even less sense.

Mixed bag this week I think.

Emanations is probably the best one and I like the look at belief and death it has.

I think Chakotay is ruined now though. Everytime he talks about his heritage I just roll my eyes at the bullshit.

Only good thing about Chakotay is the way B'elanna says his name differently to everyone else for some reason.

Eye of the Needle
Enjoyed this one, the reveal that they were out of time with the Romulans on the other side of the wormhole was cool from a story beat perspective even if it felt obvious that it was coming as once again Red Dwarf had warned me about such things:

Ex Post Facto
Not a fan of this one. Like Moggy says it treads very similar ground to the Riker on trial episode of TNG without really offering anything new or interesting to spice it up.

Although I do like the fact that Tuvok hinges the whole case on the strawberry floating dog :lol:

Emanations
Solid episode with some good philosophising around death, afterlife, religion and so on which is usually fertile ground for the show (except when it comes to Crusher strawberry floating ghosts)

Poor Harry Kim, goes through a bit of an ordeal in this one! Can probably forgive him for how quickly he drops any gooseberry fools he gives about the prime directive when he starts to realise he's going to need to save himself. Still, I'm sure all this personal sacrifice and dedication will see him get rewarded and he'll probably be an Admiral by the time they get home to the Alpha quadrant...

I want a new one-off series or "movie event" where Harry Kim is the Villain and is out to make Starfleet pay for still being an Ensign.

Prime Factors

Janeway is spot on about the Prime Directive, it might make sense to the Federation, but not so much to the poor sods they refuse to help.

I found the aliens in this a little annoying, but I enjoyed the episode overall. It was nice little moral quandary. Accept the alien culture's laws or break them to save your friends. I think the alien culture should be respected. But I can't say that I wouldn't have done the same in order to try and get home.

State of Flux

The plot is a bit convoluted and feels like it twists and turns just for the sake of it. But it felt like it'll be a story that comes up again.

I'm still confused by the Kezon. In the first episode they saw water as a hard to obtain substance and were amazed that the Federation could beam down so much water. But they are clearly a space faring civilisation, travelling around their galaxy. They are behind the Federation and can't replicate but they should be able to get all the water they want from the planets/moons/comets around their section of the galaxy?

Heroes and Demons

Why does anybody use the holodecks? :lol:

I love the Doctor character. My favourite Trek characters in each series tend to not be human. Data, Quark and now the Doctor. Bones is the only human favourite.

Despite liking the Doctor, the episode itself was mediocre. They went for fun, but ended up with slightly dull. Plus yet more energy beings. Trek needs to come up with some new ideas.

Cathexis

"Ancient" English cosplaying on the holodeck, an energy being taking over the crew, a weird nebula....yep, Trek was really running out of ideas at this stage.

I found this quite boring, for most of it I was distracted and hoping that it'd hurry up and finish. I didn't dislike this as much as Ex Post Facto. But it's the second worst so far.

Cheeky Devlin wrote:I want a new one-off series or "movie event" where Harry Kim is the Villain and is out to make Starfleet pay for still being an Ensign.

I would be all in for this! :nod:

Jenuall wrote:
Cheeky Devlin wrote:I want a new one-off series or "movie event" where Harry Kim is the Villain and is out to make Starfleet pay for still being an Ensign.

I would be all in for this!

He's way too dull to be a good villain.

Moggy wrote:
Jenuall wrote:
Cheeky Devlin wrote:I want a new one-off series or "movie event" where Harry Kim is the Villain and is out to make Starfleet pay for still being an Ensign.

I would be all in for this!

He's way too dull to be a good villain.

Just needs to go through the evil transporter and get some eyeliner on and he'll be sorted!

It's funny that Boimler, Mariner, Tendi and Rutherford now outrank Harry Kim. :lol:

Prime Factors
A nice reversal of the Prime Directive. How far is Janeway willing to push her principles to get them home.

State of Flux
I always felt that they never quite got Seska right after this episode. She becomes a bit pantomime villain in places. But they did here.
It's a shame she's not used more often.

Yeah Seska isn't really well utilised which is a shame, because I'd forgotten how solid a job they actually do of setting her up in these early episodes.

Also watching this all back now I can't help but see Carey as just a Fisher-Price Miles O'Brien!

Jenuall wrote:Yeah Seska isn't really well utilised which is a shame, because I'd forgotten how solid a job they actually do of setting her up in these early episodes.

Also watching this all back now I can't help but see Carey as just a Fisher-Price Miles O'Brien!

We have O'Brien at home!

Faces

Fascist aliens, experimenting on living beings while being gleeful about getting a "pure" breed. :dread:

I'm not sure about the message of this one. We are obviously supposed to find the aliens disgusting (and indeed they are!), but the whole "they seem to have made me a coward!" rang uncomfortably close to some eugenic style argument of certain traits being built into certain races. Of course Klingons and humans are different, but still.... There also seemed to be a hint of "mixed race people have inner conflict", which (hopefully!) was unintended.

A good episode other than the above concerns, although hitting the reset button on Torres at the end was annoying. I expect this will all be forgotten about as soon as the episode ended.

Jetrel

Hmmm. This started well with a look at a "just following orders" war crime. The need to makes amends and the emotional cost of war (on both sides) could have been fantastic.

But then it turned into a creepy thing in a jar followed with "all the people were vapourised into the cloud, I can turn them back to people" bullshit. And who the strawberry float would let him try!

And like strawberry float would I have forgiven him at the end. Let the prick go to his grave with that guilt.

A shame, it could have been something special.

Learning Curve

This Jane Austin character is Janeway's version of Picard's private eye isn't she? :dread:

Tuvok is a prick. The Maquis might be undisciplined, but they are correct that they never signed up for shiny shoe Starfleet. The whole episode seemed to have the message "rules and military discipline are good", with only a slight crumb that bending the rules is sometimes ok. And the "if you can bend the rules, then we can follow them!" line was as dreadful as it was predictable..

Despite those complaints, I actually liked this one. I'm a sucker for training montages. :lol:

Season one done! It feels odd to have such a sort season!

The 37's

I just read the Netflix episode description. I predict this is going to be very very bad. :lol:

I've watched up to the opening credits. I'm adding an extra "very" to my prediction. :lol:

I'm not convinced Amelia Earhart will be that well known in the 24th century. She's known now, but I don't imagine the average person knows who she is. Still, I guess Janeway may have an interest in female aviation pioneers - although that doesn't explain why half Klingon Torres, who isn't from Earth seemed to know who she was.

Why would their cities be 50 miles away from their holy site? I guess it was to save money on actually showing them. :lol:

And why the strawberry float would aliens travel tens of thousands of light years just to pick up a few hundred slaves? The galaxy is full of life, why go to the trouble of kidnapping people from so far away?

And it was very convenient that none of the 20th century humans wanted to go with Voyager and none of the Voyager crew wanted to stay on the planet :lol:

That's a lot of writing which makes me sound like I hated it. But I didn't, it was actually good!

Landing the starship was pretty cool! Wikipedia tells me this was the first time Trek has done that, although Voyager looks a lot smaller than the various Enterprise ships we've seen!

Prime Factors

Agree that the exploration of the Prime Directive from the other side is a great element of this episode, but outside of that it doesn't have a whole lot going for it. Tuvok taking some initiative to steal the tech was a good bit of work for the character, helps to remind us that the Vulcan logical approach to things doesn't mean that they are always goody two shoes!

State of Flux

This is another good episode, even if as Moggy points out the capabilities of the Kazon seem a bit all over the place. They do a decent job of spreading some doubt around who the spy is but it doesn't last long before it's pretty clear that Seska is the dodgy one.

Closing scene with Tuvok and Chakotay discussing being fooled by Seska is a nice bit of relationship development.

Heroes and Demons

Agree with Moggy that this is a decent knockabout episode but very much treading old ground - broken holo deck, non-human character experiencing human connections/emotions, weird energy being etc.

That said the Doctor is always fun and he has some great interactions in this.

Cathexis

I think there's about 75% of a really great episode here - the paranoia and suspicion that overtakes the crew when they don't understand exactly what is going on and how to contain whatever influence is controlling them is really great, how they start to question and second guess who is on their side and who might be working for the alien etc. all really good stuff! But they don't take it quite as far as needed to make it really land, and then everything with Chakotay doing some spirit walking bullshit to fight back is just pure "meh".

Not convinced that the command structure Janeway is implementing in her ship is legit either, at one point her and Tuvok leave the bridge to go to engineering and she nonchalantly leaves Kim in charge - he's a strawberry floating Ensign! Surely there must have been more senior officers around? :lol:

Also, what was the deal with the whole opening of this one about - Janeway in the Victorian holodeck scenario? I assumed this was going to loop back into the plot or at least the subtext of what was going on but it never seemed to be important! :lol:

Faces
The core plot driver of this episode doesn't really make sense for me - How do the Vidiians even know what a Klingon is? How did they know that Klingon DNA would be worth experimenting on? Did they even see/interact with Torres in the last episode they were in?

There are definitely problematic aspects like Moggy points out though - the handling of the conflict between the parts of Torres, the (hopefully unintended) implications that throws up around mixed race people etc. But I do think Roxann Dawson does a really good job in how she handles the two roles purely from an acting perspective!

Initiations

Nog! :wub:

Kind of a shame he has such a distinctive voice, I could have ignored that he looked like Nog without the makeup, but he sounded exactly like him!

A decent story if not mindblowing. The Kazon are a bit like gooseberry fool Klingons, they have a weird sense of battle honour but also seem to be scavenger like - which I'd imagine Klingons would rather die than be. :lol:

Projections

I wasn't expecting Barclay to turn up!

A really good episode and it was great to spend more time with the Doctor. He is very similar to Data in so many ways, but his grumpy and piss taking personality are fantastic.

My main complaint would be what I always hate about this sort of story. It was obvious that it was all a delusion as we know there are a lot of episodes to go. But stories that are "yay, I'm back in the real world....oh no this is just another simulation....no it's the real world...nope it's a simulation..." do my head in. It's always impossible to tell what's going on and what is real. And it's just too much of a trope now.

Elogium

The ship is strawberry floated. Literally. :lol:

I didn't think much if this one. Both plots were quite meh.

The need for procreation on a 75 year journey is interesting. But I'm guessing it goes nowhere, the show only has 7 seasons!

Non Sequitur

"I'm going to Marseilles to see Paris" :lol:

That line aside, it was quite dull. It could have been an interesting premise, but Kim isn't a very interesting character and they didn't do a great job of building on the idea behind the episode. Paris is slightly better but his motivation to go back to Voyager (just because a crazy man he met in a bar says he should!) because they're in an alternate reality was weak.

And how weak is Starfleet security :lol:

And Kim is crazy. He should have stayed where he was :lol:

Didn't realise this had a truncated season 1, hard to believe we're onto the second season already!

Jetrel

With a bit of extra work I think you've got a genuinely brilliant episode here. There are some really great aspects here - the exploration of war crimes, abuse of science/technology in the pursuit of victory, guilt caused by involvement in it, how you process forgiveness or vengeance when confronted with those involved in it etc. But it doesn't quite know what to do with them and completely biffs the ending.

Also I couldn't get beyond the fact that the guy playing Jetrel has been quite prominent as the Bajoran doctor who found Odo in DS9. It's always quite off-putting when an actor is re-used like this, I'm sure they'll never do something like that again! :lol:

Learning Curve

Whilst I generally really like his character, I agree with Moggy that Tuvok is a bit of a prick here. He's supposed to be like 100 years old but we're expected to believe he has never encountered a situation where he has to bend his approach to achieve results before? This is the first time that doing this his pre-programmed way hasn't worked out for him and so he's had to mix it up a bit? Nah, not buying it!

Really weird episode to end a season on really - was there some writers strike stuff going on at the time? Can't believe this is how they wanted to round out a first season of a show!

The 37's

I literally just watched an episode of Community which features the actress playing Amelia Earheart in this and I can't shake that association now!

This episode is kind of fun but doesn't really make a huge amount of sense logically as Moggy points out.[/quote]

Initiations

Oh look it's Nog! Guess they will just keep re-using actors then! :lol:

I think I'm just going to choose to believe that Chakotay is some kind of alien species and that explains all of his customs rather than trying to reconcile them with actually native American culture :dread:

Decent enough episode overall, gave us a bit more insight into the Kazon if nothing else.

Projections

This is another one of those episode types where it feels like if done today you could really go to town on it - how you pull the rug out from under the character and audience about what is real and what isn't, building the tension and confusion in the Doctor around what to believe about what is going on etc. But in the mid-90s the TV landscape still feels like it had to play things a bit too safe.

Also the US system of putting credits at the start of an episode is so strawberry floating terrible for spoiling surprises - oh look Barclay is going to turn up at some point because you just listed him in the credits! :fp:

Epic Star Trek Re-Watch - Voyager - Season 3 Week 6!- "Displaces" to "Scorpion - Part 2"

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