Depression, Anxiety, or other Mental Health Conditions

aayl1 wrote:Change is important, perceptions are important, but I do hate the whole "if you are stressed it is because you're not meditating/exercising/changing yourself enough" rhetoric as if the world isn't literally burning around us and mortgages triple in price etc.



I add the above while wholeheartedly agreeing with Gecko btw.

Yup. I am speaking at the moment mostly in the context of relationships and navigating the world, which is largely made up of people, whether we like to admit it or not.

Most of my worries have little to do with my abilities or even the world as it functions (or in my opinion doesn't function very well, but, well, we're not all dead yet) but my relationship with the people in it. Sometimes it has to do with how I am best making use of my abilities but I tend to measure that against what other people think about it, or don't know about that, because I don't do enough things etc.
That dives a bit into victimhood when I am complaining about other people (being misunderstood, underappreciated, etc) while conveniently also ignoring what I can do, which will ultimately lead to me complaining that I do not achieve enough of this or that (i.e. influence, self-fulfilment, self-compassion), because I am expending so much energy on complaining about the world rather than my place within it. That's another anxiety loop.
Like I said, for people with generalised anxiety there are thousands of them with possibly new ones every time something novel happens. So we lose if we anticipate (anticipation is a big part of anxiety) something based on past interpretations, and we also lose when something new happens, by basically interpreting it in a negative way again. We just build an endless go-to list of things that are gooseberry fool, and the body thinks, cool, let's worry about that for 5 minutes, half an hour, a day, weeks at a time, forever. X1000.

When it comes to the world being gooseberry fool, that's more to do with circles of control or rather what we can realistically influence, change and other gooseberry fool we will probably just worry about forever (and perhaps that's reasonable, again it depends on the thing and the person; which is the acceptance part.) That's all fine, we just have the ability to assess this part and it can cut out a lot of unnecessary worries hence reduce the sense of overwhelm and improve the ability to focus on constructive actions that might improve the situation from which anxiety arises. For example, we can reduce choices (choice isn't always a good thing), by building a routine, or reducing distractions. That's the "effective person" part.

I've found this approach helpful because I am someone with a lot of ambitions and creative ideas that wants to accomplish things and essentially set the standard against which I measure myself, because I find that empowering when I had very little influence when I was a child (probably) during a lot of disorder. This to the point that I barely ever recognise how high that bar is objectively, and still find some way or another to think I am not fulfilling some mystery criteria of achievement in one's life;- especially within my capacity.

Say for (dramatic) example if someone spends (trigger warning) 99% of their time worrying about what their dead relative thought of them, well that's not something you can really control, because they are dead (a fact or state that's universally accepted to be true by most people), neither is it something you can influence (not anymore), or at best to the degree that you can query how you interpreted the interactions at the time with new knowledge, perspective, experience, whatever it is. That is possible, but changing the facts themselves is not. It's a brutal razor but it becomes easier the more you practice it. Sometimes the idea of letting go of some old interpretations is terrifying enough in itself because we have in a way become comfortable with always pointing at that thing as a source of discomfort, which in itself can distract away from what one can realistically improve in their lives, or the lives of others (but another trap is to try and fill someone else's cup before yours is full;- that's not possible, at least not in a sustainable way, again setting yourself up for a fall).

One of the reasons anxiety slips into depression is the feeling of hopelessness. You get demotivated once you feel hopeless, so you tend to do less constructive things, so you feel more hopeless, expend 90% of your energy feeling hopeless and not addressing the problem(s), and that's probably where you'll stay until the scenario itself changes. But we can feel hopeless about things we cannot control and perhaps were always hopeless whether we had that thought about it, or not. Which begs the question, if something was never realistically achievable or addressable by a single person (I can't think of an example right now because I am meant to be working...), then what would happen to that situation if we were never aware of it? The outcome may well have been the same. So why did we start thinking and then continually thought about that thing? Anxiety is (generally speaking), mostly thinking involving relatively little action. That's why it's disabling, or it would be a pretty healthy anxiety that basically motivates us to do things (that's why the mechanism exists).

What are we supposed to do with those thoughts? No matter what kind of treatment or coping mechanism or whatever it is that addresses the symptom, we have to go back to the origin of the thoughts if we are going to get anywhere close to reducing them, or even preventing them. We can't prevent thoughts, but we can prevent just one from spiralling into endless sequences of hopelessness or worry.

It's basically CBT/cognitive neuroscience/psychology and paying attention to the relationship between thoughts and emotions. But personally having done CBT I think it's slightly more complicated than it needs to be longer term, and focuses more on therapy than it needs to longer term. I don't think anyone wants to be in therapy forever - it's impractical for all sorts of reasons. Least of all it is very expensive, and has a tendency to perpetuate rumination on the same problems (speaking myself having spent thousands on person-centred counselling).

Been given the lovely news this week that my team will cease to exist at work as of November. So I have to find another job within the company, take “voluntary” redundancy pay package or go through consultation that if the process goes too long the offer changes to statutory redundancy.

15 years under this employer. Fair to say anxiety and depression has SPIKED this week.

So I really struggle with my gender identity and yesterday I went round a friend's house to try on some more feminine clothing.

I'm not trying to look super feminine or anything, just like gender neutral or a female librarian kind vibe. Only found one thing that fit me and I liked but it's a start.

Either way, I feel like it was quite a big step in my journey, but today I'm feeling really down and I'm not sure why.

Maybe it's because it kind of made this thing real, and I've being kind of supressing it for a long time because it's just so much easier in the short term.

I think maybe part of it was also because I realised I'm never going to look how I want to look because of my genetics. Which is sad but also I guess I just need to come to terms with it.

Johnny Ryall wrote:Been given the lovely news this week that my team will cease to exist at work as of November. So I have to find another job within the company, take “voluntary” redundancy pay package or go through consultation that if the process goes too long the offer changes to statutory redundancy.

15 years under this employer. Fair to say anxiety and depression has SPIKED this week.

That sucks man. I hope things go smoothly for you, whatever happens.

Johnny Ryall wrote:Been given the lovely news this week that my team will cease to exist at work as of November. So I have to find another job within the company, take “voluntary” redundancy pay package or go through consultation that if the process goes too long the offer changes to statutory redundancy.

15 years under this employer. Fair to say anxiety and depression has SPIKED this week.

Sorry to hear that bro.

Work Thread always there for you in terms of interview/career advice.

Follow that up with my father in law getting diagnosed with colon cancer yesterday and you have one of the most “you couldn’t make this up” weeks for mental drain I’ve had as an adult.

@Fade you’re never too old to redefine yourself. Whether that’s being a bit androgynous or going all in on the change but you just do what makes you happy and strawberry float the bigots.

Johnny Ryall wrote:Follow that up with my father in law getting diagnosed with colon cancer yesterday and you have one of the most “you couldn’t make this up” weeks for mental drain I’ve had as an adult.

@Fade you’re never too old to redefine yourself. Whether that’s being a bit androgynous or going all in on the change but you just do what makes you happy and strawberry float the bigots.

Hard. My mum has had a colostomy and didn't tell us about the cancer for about a year. My grandad (her dad) also passed away from bowel cancer. I am sorry this is probably not stuff you want to think about but I get it. One of my personal heroes is also fighting bowel cancer.

Fade, you should attend Pride, I put my hair up in a clip this time. Visit Brighton some day. I'm pan (or bi according according to a bigoted bi man I know) but I'm fine with queer. And kind of "reserve" they/them pronouns, never been especially gender conforming and never been comfortable with so-called masculinity. I have a queer hairdresser now, if that means anything. Accidentally worn and knowingly bought "women's" clothing from shops and couldn't give a strawberry float.

Green Gecko wrote:

Johnny Ryall wrote:Follow that up with my father in law getting diagnosed with colon cancer yesterday and you have one of the most “you couldn’t make this up” weeks for mental drain I’ve had as an adult.

@Fade you’re never too old to redefine yourself. Whether that’s being a bit androgynous or going all in on the change but you just do what makes you happy and strawberry float the bigots.

Hard. My mum has had a colostomy and didn't tell us about the cancer for about a year. My grandad (her dad) also passed away from bowel cancer. I am sorry this is probably not stuff you want to think about but I get it. One of my personal heroes is also fighting bowel cancer.

Fade, you should attend Pride, I put my hair up in a clip this time. Visit Brighton some day. I'm pan (or bi according according to a bigoted bi man I know) but I'm fine with queer. And kind of "reserve" they/them pronouns, never been especially gender conforming and never been comfortable with so-called masculinity. I have a queer hairdresser now, if that means anything. Accidentally worn and knowingly bought "women's" clothing from shops and couldn't give a strawberry float.

Bowel cancer is scary, took my Grandma and almost took my mum, they're pretty sure it's genetic in my family so I have to get the ole bum cam every few years. They caught my mum's really late and she survived, so there is hope! Though they did have to remove part of her bowel.

Thanks all for the support regarding queer stuff. I am trying to immerse myself more in queer spaces, but it just feels like a constant battle you know, gender typical stuff is everywhere and there are very few spaces where I feel like I can just be myself.

Even when cis people are supportive they still engage in gendered behaviour and you still see it everywhere. It makes it very hard to feel like being yourself is a normal positive thing, and not something that's going to cause issues with people understanding you.

I agree that bowel cancer is a total dick. It took my granda. He deserved a lot better.

Sometimes I wish I was still with my emotionally abusive ex.

Sure it was traumatic, but at least I wasn't mind numbingly lonely and touch starved.

Has anyone ever contacted Bupa for counselling and how easy was the process to be able to speak to someone?

I have a policy through work and it appears to include mental health.

I'm a little scared to ring them and not sure I deserve to speak to anyone as my problems seem so futile.

Life an absolute strawberry floating mess at the moment. Sure it's an opportunity to make things better but I just needed to scream that into the void somewhere.

poshrule_uk wrote:Has anyone ever contacted Bupa for counselling and how easy was the process to be able to speak to someone?

I have a policy through work and it appears to include mental health.

I'm a little scared to ring them and not sure I deserve to speak to anyone as my problems seem so futile.

poshrule, I haven't approached Bupa about mental health, but... yes, go for it! I just took a look at their website and they're geared up to provide support.

It's completely natural to think that "I'm not worth it" but many people feel that way when they're struggling and it's sometimes a sign that they do need a bit of help. It could be worth taking that first step, even though it can feel tough.

Green Gecko wrote:Life an absolute strawberry floating mess at the moment. Sure it's an opportunity to make things better but I just needed to scream that into the void somewhere.

Hang in there, Gecko, and, yeah, I sometimes feel that a bit of shouting - which posting in GR definitely counts as! - does help.

I'm not looking for sympathy or anything, I just want to write this down somewhere.

Basically, I've been low before, but I think this is the lowest I have been in a long time, if not ever.

Life gets old fast and I can't remember the last time I enjoyed it, felt confident or had any self worth.

I'm not suicidal (I'd end up being unlucky enough to mess it and leave myself a vegetable or something) but I would happily welcome a bus driver missing a red light, a drunken mob stabbing or an anvil falling from the sky.

Rapidly-Greying wrote:I'm not looking for sympathy or anything, I just want to write this down somewhere.

Basically, I've been low before, but I think this is the lowest I have been in a long time, if not ever.

Life gets old fast and I can't remember the last time I enjoyed it, felt confident or had any self worth.

I'm not suicidal (I'd end up being unlucky enough to mess it and leave myself a vegetable or something) but I would happily welcome a bus driver missing a red light, a drunken mob stabbing or an anvil falling from the sky.

I'm kinda in the same boat, I have thoughts where I don't want to be here but I do. I don't really understand it TBH.

Following a conversation with Kerr9000, I've spoken to my GP today and he is referring me to the mental health team for an assessment of my symptoms which, I believe to be, C-PTSD related.

I feel very differently about life now I have my own son. I love him with every fibre of my being and I want to be the best Dad I can be. And part of that means addressing some upsetting truths about my childhood of physical violence and emotional abuse.

I may post updates in here occasionally but, for now, I'm just going to wait for my referral letter to come through.

Zilent Night wrote:Following a conversation with Kerr9000, I've spoken to my GP today and he is referring me to the mental health team for an assessment of my symptoms which, I believe to be, C-PTSD related.

I feel very differently about life now I have my own son. I love him with every fibre of my being and I want to be the best Dad I can be. And part of that means addressing some upsetting truths about my childhood of physical violence and emotional abuse.

I may post updates in here occasionally but, for now, I'm just going to wait for my referral letter to come through.

I am really glad you have talked to your GP I hope this is the start of things getting a little better for you, my inbox is always open.


I notice a lot of people kind of think there issue or worries are too small to get help, issues are never too small, there's always going to be people doing worse and better in life but it's always better to get help before problems get bigger..... I nearly left the waiting area of my first trauma appointment cause I thought the others waiting seemed worse and more deserving and it would have been a big mistake ...

Much love to all of you going through stuff whatever the reason

Scrooge Rules wrote:

Rapidly-Greying wrote:I'm not looking for sympathy or anything, I just want to write this down somewhere.

Basically, I've been low before, but I think this is the lowest I have been in a long time, if not ever.

Life gets old fast and I can't remember the last time I enjoyed it, felt confident or had any self worth.

I'm not suicidal (I'd end up being unlucky enough to mess it and leave myself a vegetable or something) but I would happily welcome a bus driver missing a red light, a drunken mob stabbing or an anvil falling from the sky.

I'm kinda in the same boat, I have thoughts where I don't want to be here but I do. I don't really understand it TBH.

I think thinking your issues are too small is similar to thinking that your situation is unique and cannot be helped, but without the "my problems are so insurmountable and massive and complicated that nobody could ever help me" which is a sort of overwhelm that could border on delusion too. For some reason you're undeserving of help or it's so trivial as to it shouldn't be a problem for you and it should go away on its own. That's not a healthy way to think and it's tough to get out of that if that's the coping mechanism. This is a bit "tough love" but it's also an excuse for not getting help and thus the problem gets worse and it cannot be helped, I'm doomed etc etc, it's a self fulfilling prophecy / anxiety spiral. I think that's engrained somewhat in British culture too and hence is endemic here.

I'm addressing with somewhat more brutal coaching at this point in my journey various toxic mindsets that have done nothing to help me at all in the much longer term and that is one of them.

The idea that a situation is so unique and terrible that nobody can help you or no resource is useful, this isn't true, it's an unhealthy coping mechanism (yes a coping mechanism is better than nothing but in the long term it is not useful). No situation is so truly unique so as to be beyond help or so that the only person who can do anything about it is you. While yes it is largely down to what you can (and sometimes can't do), or will or won't do, because it is your life, it's a trap because it gives you an out from seeking help when you can use it. I hate to use such a terrible example but say for example Steve Jobs, if you have cancer and you refuse to see a doctor, yes you might die anyway, yes you may not be cured, but you will definitely 100% die if you refuse treatment (and I guess it's OK to accept that if that's what you want, but it probably isn't - you want to live).

Not seeking help is not strong or stoic or whatever, it's part of the problem. It's a tough place to be but I think dismissing issues as too small or too unimportant is a very subtle way of falling for the myth and into the trap that "I don't need help, won't get it or even want it because XYZ". Emotionally that may be the case but rationally, logically it is not, it is part of what is keeping you there and perpetuating suffering so that it "cannot be helped, it's just the way I am / just the way it is". No, this is all circular and there is a different path, there are multiple paths.

Stoicism and stiff upper lip, "I'm fine" rhetoric that's drilled into millions of people is toxic in my opinion, it works for a while and then it backfires enormously and people literally end up dead. Yes you need to walk this path on your own ultimately and nobody can do 100% of the work for you but they can help. In some cases refusing help is actually arrogance and yourself working against you, it is somewhat weak because it gives into the idea that you are powerless and it's thus giving up your power to some other party or higher power or chance or whatever. Think about that for a moment. Again I mention this in context that "my problems are too small", that's the same thing as saying "my problems are too big, they're impossible". It's an excuse to not get help, hard to put it any more or less bluntly than that but there it is. Please get help, it's OK and one of the strongest things you can do. If someone wants to be strong and robust and fierce and independent then, actually getting help is all of those things! Not getting help is the opposite, it's a total falsehood that like I say is potentially lethal, we just don't see it. It's really sad.

Get help. Getting help comes from a place of humility and humbleness, you aren't perfect (nobody is), but getting help is part of a process and it's the process that matters (nobody can ever be "non-depressed" or "non-anxious" forever, in all situations, but you can start maybe not feeling that way all of the time). You don't lose control doing this, or independence, you GAIN it.

Hope that's not too strong a point but something I felt like writing about for some reason.

Green Gecko wrote:Not seeking help is not strong or stoic or whatever, it's part of the problem. It's a tough place to be but I think dismissing issues as too small or too unimportant is a very subtle way of falling for the myth and into the trap that "I don't need help, won't get it or even want it because XYZ". Emotionally that may be the case but rationally, logically it is not, it is part of what is keeping you there and perpetuating suffering so that it "cannot be helped, it's just the way I am / just the way it is". No, this is all circular and there is a different path, there are multiple paths.

Stoicism and stiff upper lip, "I'm fine" rhetoric that's drilled into millions of people is toxic in my opinion, it works for a while and then it backfires enormously and people literally end up dead. Yes you need to walk this path on your own ultimately and nobody can do 100% of the work for you but they can help. In some cases refusing help is actually arrogance and yourself working against you, it is somewhat weak because it gives into the idea that you are powerless and it's thus giving up your power to some other party or higher power or chance or whatever. Think about that for a moment. Again I mention this in context that "my problems are too small", that's the same thing as saying "my problems are too big, they're impossible". It's an excuse to not get help, hard to put it any more or less bluntly than that but there it is. Please get help, it's OK and one of the strongest things you can do. If someone wants to be strong and robust and fierce and independent then, actually getting help is all of those things! Not getting help is the opposite, it's a total falsehood that like I say is potentially lethal, we just don't see it. It's really sad.

Get help. Getting help comes from a place of humility and humbleness, you aren't perfect (nobody is), but getting help is part of a process and it's the process that matters (nobody can ever be "non-depressed" or "non-anxious" forever, in all situations, but you can start maybe not feeling that way all of the time). You don't lose control doing this, or independence, you GAIN it.

Hope that's not too strong a point but something I felt like writing about for some reason.

Its a very good point and its one of the reasons years ago I carried on working and tried to work through my PTSD and stuff , I think its something very worth challenging, just like the stupid men don't cry stuff.


Also glad to see Doug Stanhope in here he is a breath of fresh air at times