#NewGamesJournalism: Lauren Wainwright sacked.

Harry Bizzle wrote:This is a very good post.

Here's a screengrab of one of the less interesting links, which is nonetheless absolutely hilarious by it's description:

See, Chris, this is what I was saying God knows how many pages back when I called it terrifying. I unfortunately blinked and it was lost in a swathe of new pages.

But to see any form of journalism avoided because a journalist likes all the people involved and doesn't want to comment is just depressing.

This is not a swipe at Canton by any means, but what happens when a journalist "likes" the PR guy who they've known for years and are actually friends with?


Remember back when Ryan Payton was on the MGS team? He was more of a friend than a PR guy to the 1Up crew. He still goes on their podcasts because they're so pally with him. But he's always got a game to talk about.

What happens when his new game is ass? Will they rip it to shreds like they would a game made by someone who they don't know? Will Mark McDonald make loads of his trademark snarky remarks as they all sit around and laugh at it on 8-4 Play? Of course not.



I really hope his game doesn't suck though. I've backed it.

You'd hope that in that scenario the writer was professional enough to put aside any 'feelings' and do their job. And you'd also hope that the PR guy was grown-up enough to realise the difference between someone doing their job and someone being his friend. For some shitty 'hobby sites' maybe that isn't the case, but anything less than that on the pro sites wouldn't be acceptable (or shouldn't be).

Oof.





That would be absolutely oarsome.

This stuff is literally more interesting than actual games.

Skarjo wrote:See, Chris, this is what I was saying God knows how many pages back when I called it terrifying. I unfortunately blinked and it was lost in a swathe of new pages.

But to see any form of journalism avoided because a journalist likes all the people involved and doesn't want to comment is just depressing.

No, that's enormously reductive. I explained here and elsewhere, if you actually read the thread instead of skimming from your own 'terrifying' post (which I addressed) to this one, that's a very small part of the reason I haven't written about it. Except I have now, in detail, on this forum. Again, I'm not sure why it's my responsibility to do so given my lack of involvement in the whole exercise. I wasn't at the GMAs, I didn't tweet anything about the PS3, I have very few dealings with PRs, I attend even fewer events.

I find it hilarious that you had nothing to say on the matter and felt the need to say that, which has been construed as not saying what you wanted to say out of loyalty.


Basically, you should have just kept your mouth shut.

Harry Bizzle wrote:I find it hilarious that you had nothing to say on the matter and felt the need to say that, which has been construed as not saying what you wanted to say out of loyalty.

Basically, you should have just kept your mouth shut.

We're going round in circles now. That's been said before, and I've acknowledged that.

Totilo has sadly rejected GAFs kind offer, which is very surprising to me.

chalkitdown wrote:Totilo has sadly rejected GAFs kind offer, which is very surprising to me.

He's doing his own, apparently.

It's actually a shame. I'd be much more interested in an article put together by GAF than anything written by him or the hacks that work for him.

rudderless wrote:Right. So the fact that I like both of them - I wouldn't call either friends, not least because I've had run-ins with both on Twitter before - is just a part of why I wouldn't write it. But mostly because it's an issue I - as someone who very rarely deals with PRs and even less frequently attends gaming events - have very little experience of. I can't add anything meaningful to the conversation that hasn't already been said. Meanwhile, a load of factually incorrect blog pieces pop up, written by people displaying a lack of journalistic ethics by failing to adequately check the facts of the matter. That's not integrity, it's hypocrisy.

Quite apart from that, as a freelancer who writes almost exclusively about the games themselves rather than the industry or the politics that surrounds issues like this, why is it my 'responsibility' to write such a piece? Would you say it's Jonathan Ross's 'responsibility' to write about corruption in Hollywood because he presents a film show on TV? You're saying the failure of one writer who has no previous in talking about issues like this, hasn't actually defended Lauren beyond saying that the dog's abuse she got from Twitter was unfair, and has actually made a point of saying there are lessons that can and will be learned here, to write a blog post about a matter that I think is worth more than just a knee-jerk reaction (there are subtleties to the issues here that I've still not completely made up my mind about) is 'terrifying'? Really?

rudderless wrote:No, that's enormously reductive. I explained here and elsewhere, if you actually read the thread instead of skimming from your own 'terrifying' post (which I addressed) to this one, that's a very small part of the reason I haven't written about it. Except I have now, in detail, on this forum. Again, I'm not sure why it's my responsibility to do so given my lack of involvement in the whole exercise. I wasn't at the GMAs, I didn't tweet anything about the PS3, I have very few dealings with PRs, I attend even fewer events.

I'm not saying it's your responsibility, if you had wanted to just stay out of it then you should have just stayed out of it. But you didn't, and, in fact, your refusal to comment on the situation because a)you weren't there and b)you quite like the people involved has been noted by people far outside the end of GGC.

You might say that you're not involved for spurious reasons about not going to many shows or didn't tweet about that specific PS3 or whatever but if you don't see how this is affecting perception of your job and role in the industry then I think you're being hugely naive. Further to that, whilst I would shy away from the word responsibility, I think it's absolutely in your own best interests to comment, clarify and expose.

This is being seen as an exposé of rampant corruption, paid-for reviews and poor journalistic ethics which has given the already poor name of games journalism a firm black eye. If I called myself a games journalist I would personally take that as an insult and I would want to clear up the situation, and if PRs and being regarded as too in bed with their critics then I would think you could see how a comment like 'I don't want to comment, not least because I like both parties' would be misconstrued.

As has been said, at the moment, PR and games journalism seems to be one big back-patting circle-jerk of self-protectionism. I, personally, think that achieving this is a PRs main directive and an ethical journalist's prime directive should be to prevent it. So when we have journalists seemingly wanting to not bad mouth their 'friends' the whole thing stinks of a spineless journalistic community not wanting to piss off their PR friends and watch the swag dry up. If I were you, who, I'm presuming, does not consider this to be the case, then I would be defending my integrity without a care to who gets pissed off. Nor do you have to have been in the room to comment on whether journos tweeting freely to get free gooseberry fool is a professional attitude.

Skarjo wrote:As has been said, at the moment, PR and games journalism seems to be one big back-patting circle-jerk of self-protectionism.

Not overly-dramatic at all

This whole thing has gone bat-shit insane.

Has this been posted?



This guy is fantastic. He got the bit about Rab being let go wrong, but he probably didn't know all the facts when he recorded it on Friday.

Skippy wrote:

Skarjo wrote:As has been said, at the moment, PR and games journalism seems to be one big back-patting circle-jerk of self-protectionism.

Not overly-dramatic at all

This whole thing has gone bat-shit insane.

It's alright, I called the whole thing terrifying ten pages back.

It is Halloween.

Meh. There's a definate feel of "circling the wagons" - from the women's initial "I'm gonna use my law module" to the response from many different people since.

The article's not half as indicative as people's reactions to it. I suspect that defensive approach is just egging some attackers on.

Hell even Rudderless was trying to get people to move on (before deciding he didn't know enough to get involved)



(Edit - I should say I'm following this across several different forums, so apologies if this is posted and I don't know what, if anything, preceeded these tweets.)

Frankly the most puzzling thing is why anyone would pay that woman for such childish writing.

It's amazing how this has escalated. Florence's original article was about how some journalists were getting a little too cosy with PRs and forgetting themselves on occasion. He was basically saying "Hey, you're meant to be journalists be more careful next time".

That has since turned into web-dwelling gamers condemning all games journalists for not being Woodward and strawberry floating Bernstein!

I apologised to Rab for that privately. The whole thing about 'moving on' was misconstrued. It was aimed to stop all the talk on Twitter from writers that was fanning the flames. Then I proceeded to do just that myself, albeit entirely unintentionally.

if you don't see how this is affecting perception of your job and role in the industry then I think you're being hugely naive. Further to that, whilst I would shy away from the word responsibility, I think it's absolutely in your own best interests to comment, clarify and expose.

I do see how this is affecting perception of jobs and roles of writers in the industry, and have discussed that in this very thread. I have commented on the Wainwright/Florence incident. I'm not sure what else I'm supposed to expose beyond talking about my own experiences, which I have, both on here and on GAF.

Skippy wrote:It's amazing how this has escalated. Florence's original article was about how some journalists were getting a little too cosy with PRs and forgetting themselves on occasion. He was basically saying "Hey, you're meant to be journalists be more careful next time".

That has since turned into web-dwelling gamers condemning all games journalists for not being Woodward and strawberry floating Bernstein!

I wouldn't say that.

But "journalists" (to use a vague generalisation and not to imply it applies to them all) got defensive, and then people hit back.

From the girl going "I'm gonna sue" and then making easily disproven statements about her history to the bloke saying "Yeah, but I gave my PS3 to charity this afternoon as I always intended " they've played pretty much a master class in how not to handle this sort of event.

Skarjo wrote:As has been said, at the moment, PR and games journalism seems to be one big back-patting circle-jerk of self-protectionism.

If you can point out exactly where I've protected a PR, please do.

Hexx wrote:From the girl going "I'm gonna sue" to the bloke saying "Yeah, but I gave my PS3 to charity this afternoon as I always intended " they've played pretty much a master class in how not to handle this sort of event.

I agree. They could really use some training in public relations...