#NewGamesJournalism: Lauren Wainwright sacked.

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Skippy wrote:

Ginga wrote:You can't run a games reviews website and have advertising from games companies. You can't make a living promoting the material you're supposed to be critical of.

It's almost like journalists are a sub-species totally incapable of independent thought Get a strawberry floating grip!

Think you've missed the point, which is the usual for you.

Somebody Else's Problem wrote:So how do you suggest they get the money needed to run a website?

They charge a subscription or they don't bother? There are alternatives, they don't need to be sponsored by games companies - look the podcast model for how comedians and bloggers are finding funding for their projects. It wouldn't be easy, it'd probably be painful and difficult but then most things worthwhile are.

I'm not here to solve their problems, although I could probably take a decent stab at it, I'm merely pointing why those problems exist.

Ginga wrote:They charge a subscription or they don't bother?

Ain't nobody going to pay for that. Not when we have forums where the news would be posted within minutes. Well done, you've destroyed games journalism.

Advertisers peddling music/film/games want to sell advertising to music/film/games magazines because that is where they will find their target audience of music/film/games fans. What advertising goes into a magazine will nine times out of ten be completely out of the control of editorial staff. That is how it works.

If people want to talk about what constitutes good journalism they need to get a strawberry floating clue about how it works in the first place. They also need to give people some strawberry floating credit because all I've seen from most the conspiracy theorists so far is a blanket judgement that all games journalists are totally incapable of being anything other than being corrupt.

Nobody becomes a writer, critic or journalist to bend over for PR companies. If you want to review anything, write a feature about anything, write news about anything and not fall behind the competition, you need a good working relationship with PR people just to make things strawberry floating easier! So you get to go on studio visits, so you can play games as early as possible and so you get press releases.

Somebody Else's Problem wrote:

Ginga wrote:They charge a subscription or they don't bother?

Ain't nobody going to pay for that. Not when we have forums where the news would be posted within minutes. Well done, you've destroyed games journalism.

Not true, I'd pay for good quality journalism; I do everytime I buy a newspaper or a magazine.

The main problem is that online journalism is engaged in a race to the bottom; prioritising speed, exclusive and volume over any actual quality.

Skarjo wrote:Not true, I'd pay for good quality journalism; I do everytime I buy a newspaper or a magazine.

I can't see me ever buying a newspaper or magazine again because I have news channels and GRcade to cover all that for free.

Skippy wrote:

Ginga wrote:You can't run a games reviews website and have advertising from games companies. You can't make a living promoting the material you're supposed to be critical of.

It's almost like journalists are a sub-species totally incapable of independent thought Get a strawberry floating grip!

I dunno, sounds about right to me.

I suppose this says a lot about my feeling for videogame "journalists" when I already consider real journalists to be gooseberry fools.

Bigerich wrote:

Skippy wrote:

Ginga wrote:You can't run a games reviews website and have advertising from games companies. You can't make a living promoting the material you're supposed to be critical of.

It's almost like journalists are a sub-species totally incapable of independent thought Get a strawberry floating grip!

I dunno, sounds about right to me.

Thanks, you took the bait and gave me the predictable reply.

This is the low level that this so-called "debate" is working at, and it's one not worth contributing to any more.

Skippy wrote:Nobody becomes a writer, critic or journalist to bend over for PR companies. If you want to review anything, write a feature about anything, write news about anything and not fall behind the competition, you need a good working relationship with PR people just to make things strawberry floating easier! So you get to go on studio visits, so you can play games as early as possible and so you get press releases.

But you're creating a false dichotomy.

That a good working relationship between journos and PR is mutually beneficial is true; it benefits the journos like you say and gets the word out about the game which benefits the PR. However, the benefits of a mutual relationship doesn't outweigh the fact that the two camps are fundamentally opposed in purpose and therefore putting one in the pocket of the other can only hurt the consumer. Does no-one remember the Kane and Lynch debacle? Where a lukewarm review for the game plastered all over the site cost the journalist his job?

If we are going to demand free content then we need to be extremely wary of setting up a journalistic community who's wages are effectively paid by those they should be giving honest, frank and objective criticism of.

Somebody Else's Problem wrote:

Skarjo wrote:Not true, I'd pay for good quality journalism; I do everytime I buy a newspaper or a magazine.

I can't see me ever buying a newspaper or magazine again because I have news channels and GRcade to cover all that for free.

Great, so long as you're prepared to get your news from sources who are no longer looking to serve your interests.

If I'm paying, the industry's priority is satisfying me. If I'm going to demand free content, I have to be prepared for news that serves the sponsors and advertisers rather than me as a reader.

Skippy wrote: If people want to talk about what constitutes good journalism they need to get a strawberry floating clue about how it works in the first place.

Considering you're one of the people that knows strawberry float all, I'd get off the high horse. Skarjo the only one that gets this, aye?

Ginga wrote:

Skippy wrote: If people want to talk about what constitutes good journalism they need to get a strawberry floating clue about how it works in the first place.

Considering you're one of the people that knows strawberry float all, I'd get off the high horse. Skarjo the only one that gets this, aye?

Proves what you know. I studied journalism for three years, have a degree in the subject and since graduating worked for a year as a journalist with Yahoo. If I'm on a high-horse about this sorry debate it's because I'm one of few with the "strawberry floating clue" I mentioned earlier.

Humility will get you nowhere Skippy.

Isn't Ginga a journalist as well?

Skippy wrote:

Ginga wrote:

Skippy wrote: If people want to talk about what constitutes good journalism they need to get a strawberry floating clue about how it works in the first place.

Considering you're one of the people that knows strawberry float all, I'd get off the high horse. Skarjo the only one that gets this, aye?

Proves what you know. I studied journalism for three years, have a degree in the subject and since graduating worked for a year as a journalist with Yahoo. If I'm on a high-horse about this sorry debate it's because I'm one of the few with the "strawberry floating clue" I mentioned earlier.

I hate the GIF but "who gives a gooseberry fool?" is really rather fitting.

I've been working in the media for a decade in everything from sport to, yes, videogames, so what's your point? That you're "an insider" and can see and understand all the minutia the public plebs don't get? Utterly strawberry floating laughable. If anything, your naivety is showing through. I'm actually on the side of writers here, radical change must occur for your benefit. Your comments on the relationship between PR companies and journalists is equally disappointing, you're inferring that nothing should change and that a few bad apples have ruined the cart - when it's entirely the opposite.

Skippy wrote:

Skarjo wrote:As has been said, PRs should be terrified of journalists

Wrong. The people the PRs work for should be terrified for journalists. Journalists and PRs need each other and work together because of that.

I find this comment from someone supposedly with a degree in journalism utterly baffling.

It's as if the phrase 'Conflict of Interest' has never been uttered.

Ginga wrote:

Skippy wrote:

Ginga wrote:

Skippy wrote: If people want to talk about what constitutes good journalism they need to get a strawberry floating clue about how it works in the first place.

Considering you're one of the people that knows strawberry float all, I'd get off the high horse. Skarjo the only one that gets this, aye?

Proves what you know. I studied journalism for three years, have a degree in the subject and since graduating worked for a year as a journalist with Yahoo. If I'm on a high-horse about this sorry debate it's because I'm one of the few with the "strawberry floating clue" I mentioned earlier.

I hate the GIF but "who gives a gooseberry fool?" is really rather fitting.

I've been working in the media for a decade in everything from sport to, yes, videogames, so what's your point? That you're "an insider" and can see and understand all the minutia the public plebs don't get? Utterly strawberry floating laughable. If anything, your naivety is showing through. I'm actually on the side of writers here, radical change must occur for your benefit. Your comments on the relationship between PR companies and journalists is equally disappointing, you're inferring that nothing should change and that a few bad apples have ruined the cart - when it's entirely the opposite.

Nevermind.

You claimed I knew strawberry float all about journalism so I proved you wrong, that's what happened. I'm not an insider or any of that bollocks, I just know more about how it works than the majority in here who fall on the consumer side.

Anyway, as I said on the other page, this isn't a "debate" worth contributing too any more. So I'm not going to.

In before someone says I'm bailing out of this thread because I'm "losing" or some twaddle

Edit: Staydead, he was saying that I was the one thinking people were plebs.

I don't think Staydead read that post.

Staydead you pussy