#NewGamesJournalism: Lauren Wainwright sacked.

Skippy wrote:Nobody becomes a writer, critic or journalist to bend over for PR companies. If you want to review anything, write a feature about anything, write news about anything and not fall behind the competition, you need a good working relationship with PR people just to make things strawberry floating easier! So you get to go on studio visits, so you can play games as early as possible and so you get press releases.

But you're creating a false dichotomy.

That a good working relationship between journos and PR is mutually beneficial is true; it benefits the journos like you say and gets the word out about the game which benefits the PR. However, the benefits of a mutual relationship doesn't outweigh the fact that the two camps are fundamentally opposed in purpose and therefore putting one in the pocket of the other can only hurt the consumer. Does no-one remember the Kane and Lynch debacle? Where a lukewarm review for the game plastered all over the site cost the journalist his job?

If we are going to demand free content then we need to be extremely wary of setting up a journalistic community who's wages are effectively paid by those they should be giving honest, frank and objective criticism of.

Somebody Else's Problem wrote:

Skarjo wrote:Not true, I'd pay for good quality journalism; I do everytime I buy a newspaper or a magazine.

I can't see me ever buying a newspaper or magazine again because I have news channels and GRcade to cover all that for free.

Great, so long as you're prepared to get your news from sources who are no longer looking to serve your interests.

If I'm paying, the industry's priority is satisfying me. If I'm going to demand free content, I have to be prepared for news that serves the sponsors and advertisers rather than me as a reader.

Skippy wrote: If people want to talk about what constitutes good journalism they need to get a strawberry floating clue about how it works in the first place.

Considering you're one of the people that knows strawberry float all, I'd get off the high horse. Skarjo the only one that gets this, aye?

Ginga wrote:

Skippy wrote: If people want to talk about what constitutes good journalism they need to get a strawberry floating clue about how it works in the first place.

Considering you're one of the people that knows strawberry float all, I'd get off the high horse. Skarjo the only one that gets this, aye?

Proves what you know. I studied journalism for three years, have a degree in the subject and since graduating worked for a year as a journalist with Yahoo. If I'm on a high-horse about this sorry debate it's because I'm one of few with the "strawberry floating clue" I mentioned earlier.

Humility will get you nowhere Skippy.

Isn't Ginga a journalist as well?

Skippy wrote:

Ginga wrote:

Skippy wrote: If people want to talk about what constitutes good journalism they need to get a strawberry floating clue about how it works in the first place.

Considering you're one of the people that knows strawberry float all, I'd get off the high horse. Skarjo the only one that gets this, aye?

Proves what you know. I studied journalism for three years, have a degree in the subject and since graduating worked for a year as a journalist with Yahoo. If I'm on a high-horse about this sorry debate it's because I'm one of the few with the "strawberry floating clue" I mentioned earlier.

I hate the GIF but "who gives a gooseberry fool?" is really rather fitting.

I've been working in the media for a decade in everything from sport to, yes, videogames, so what's your point? That you're "an insider" and can see and understand all the minutia the public plebs don't get? Utterly strawberry floating laughable. If anything, your naivety is showing through. I'm actually on the side of writers here, radical change must occur for your benefit. Your comments on the relationship between PR companies and journalists is equally disappointing, you're inferring that nothing should change and that a few bad apples have ruined the cart - when it's entirely the opposite.

Skippy wrote:

Skarjo wrote:As has been said, PRs should be terrified of journalists

Wrong. The people the PRs work for should be terrified for journalists. Journalists and PRs need each other and work together because of that.

I find this comment from someone supposedly with a degree in journalism utterly baffling.

It's as if the phrase 'Conflict of Interest' has never been uttered.

Ginga wrote:

Skippy wrote:

Ginga wrote:

Skippy wrote: If people want to talk about what constitutes good journalism they need to get a strawberry floating clue about how it works in the first place.

Considering you're one of the people that knows strawberry float all, I'd get off the high horse. Skarjo the only one that gets this, aye?

Proves what you know. I studied journalism for three years, have a degree in the subject and since graduating worked for a year as a journalist with Yahoo. If I'm on a high-horse about this sorry debate it's because I'm one of the few with the "strawberry floating clue" I mentioned earlier.

I hate the GIF but "who gives a gooseberry fool?" is really rather fitting.

I've been working in the media for a decade in everything from sport to, yes, videogames, so what's your point? That you're "an insider" and can see and understand all the minutia the public plebs don't get? Utterly strawberry floating laughable. If anything, your naivety is showing through. I'm actually on the side of writers here, radical change must occur for your benefit. Your comments on the relationship between PR companies and journalists is equally disappointing, you're inferring that nothing should change and that a few bad apples have ruined the cart - when it's entirely the opposite.

Nevermind.

You claimed I knew strawberry float all about journalism so I proved you wrong, that's what happened. I'm not an insider or any of that bollocks, I just know more about how it works than the majority in here who fall on the consumer side.

Anyway, as I said on the other page, this isn't a "debate" worth contributing too any more. So I'm not going to.

In before someone says I'm bailing out of this thread because I'm "losing" or some twaddle

Edit: Staydead, he was saying that I was the one thinking people were plebs.

I don't think Staydead read that post.

Staydead you pussy

Skarjo wrote:I don't think Staydead read that post.

I did.

Skippy wrote:You claimed I knew strawberry float all about journalism so I proved you wrong, that's what happened. I'm not an insider or any of that bollocks, I just know more about how it works than the majority in here who fall on the consumer side.

Anyway, as I said on the other page, this isn't a "debate" worth contributing too any more. So I'm not going to.

In before someone says I'm bailing out of this thread because I'm "losing" or some twaddle

Edit: Staydead, he was saying that I was the one thinking people were plebs.

Before you go, answer me exactly how you think that this doesn't constitute a conflict of interest.

PR is concerned with widespread dissemination of positive information about the product. The journalists are there to give honest, objective opinion.

How do you reconcile the situation of the people who only want good information released being the people who pay the wages of the people who are supposed to be honest, open and frank as not being a conflict of interest for the consumer?

The thread that keeps on giving.

Ginga

Skippy wrote:You claimed I knew strawberry float all about journalism so I proved you wrong, that's what happened. I'm not an insider or any of that bollocks, I just know more about how it works than the majority in here who fall on the consumer side.

Anyway, as I said on the other page, this isn't a "debate" worth contributing too any more. So I'm not going to.

In before someone says I'm bailing out of this thread because I'm "losing" or some twaddle

Edit: Staydead, he was saying that I was the one thinking people were plebs.

You got a degree then got a job at Yahoo. So that makes you a journalist? It sounds like you know how it works but have no idea why it's wrong. If you want to get really nippy about this then we can but don't start posting laughter as a response and get a chip on your shoulder when you're called out for posting condescending nonsense. This is massively important but your attitude is baffling for someone that makes his bread in the industry.

Seriously, if this isn't worth contributing to or learning from then what is?

How can games journalism move on from here then? If we don't trust sites and magazines that are sponsored by the very product they are supposed to critique but the current situation seems them utterly reliant on this Income, how does games journalism move forward?

Of course some people will happily pay for content but I'd argue it will be a minority of gamers that would make it very difficult for people to make a living at it.

Ginga wrote:You got a degree then got a job at Yahoo. So that makes you a journalist? It sounds like you know how it works but have no idea why it's wrong. If you want to get really nippy about this then we can but don't start posting laughter as a response and get a chip on your shoulder when you're called out for posting condescending nonsense. This is massively important but your attitude is baffling for someone that makes his bread in the industry.

Seriously, if this isn't worth contributing to or learning from then what is?

There is so much for journos to learn from this whole mess. About where line lies when working with PRs and about how to conduct themselves.

It is worth discussion, just not here. At this point it's a discussion for people who can actually do something about it, otherwise nothing is achieved.

And I never said the system was perfect, I was just explaining how it works because it seemed like some people didn't know.