#NewGamesJournalism: Lauren Wainwright sacked.

re: falsey and hoc's comments:

I don't discount the work "games journalists" do. My friend has done very well for himself. He went from being eliminated in Press Start Online's GGGC competition to covering E3 in LA (It was LA, right?) this year. He has legitimate talent when it comes to writing.

What I hate is the cliquiness (probably not a word) of some "journos". For example, I used to follow a number of people on twitter who posted reviews and the like for games they had played. Some had only a few hundred followers and some had thousands. Next to none of these guys ever got back to me when I asked them about a particular game or review. It seems they spend all day long tweeting other "journo" types and don't have time for the common man.

That said, yesterday I DM'd Raze (think he writes for the Guardian now - 1200 followers!) to ask about decent games released for the 360 in the past few months and within seconds he'd replied, so I'm not saying everyone is guilty of this.

I'm not saying this doesn't exist in other forms of entertainment critique but strawberry float me, stop trying to get yourself over and quit being so strawberry floating cliquey.

Now if you'll excuse me, i'm off to take a xanax.

This is Rudders job and it's fair enough somebody will defend their job.

Not that i bother. Try to convince the masses that Analysts and Programmers aren't all wierd geeks using techno magic. It isn't happening. You'll no more convince the average person that games are worthy of a form of journalism. It's just another area that's widely sneered at.

Funny how society decides what does and doesn'thave "value" though. I mean film journalism, that's seemingly OK. But games, well it's for children so it's not. If there wasn't as much rubbish written to sell to kids it'd probably improve the image though.

Actually perceptions can change. When i first went to Uni i had several asking me why the hell i was studying something as obscure as computing and told it'd never catch on and i'd never get work in it. Such comments seem stupid now and nobody questions the validity of the profession so maybe that can change for the games journo crowd too.

Falsey wrote:Do you write for Eurogamer?

What's that got to do with anything?

Something Fishy wrote:This is Rudders job and it's fair enough somebody will defend their job.

Not that i bother. Try to convince the masses that Analysts and Programmers aren't all wierd geeks using techno magic. It isn't happening. You'll no more convince the average person that games are worthy of a form of journalism. It's just another area that's widely sneered at.

Funny how society decides what does and doesn'thave "value" though. I mean film journalism, that's seemingly OK. But games, well it's for children so it's not. If there wasn't as much rubbish written to seel to kids it'd probably improve the image though.

Fair points. But I dont heed much attention to film reviews either. One persons enjoyment of a movie is entirely subjective and Im just not interested in it unless we're having a face to face discussion in which we can argue the merits and demerits.

And Proto is pretty spot on too, it does appear 'from the outside' to be a weird exclusion thing too if you arent in the know. It just looks lame as strawberry float.

rudderless wrote:

Falsey wrote:Do you write for Eurogamer?

What's that got to do with anything?

Why cant you answer the question?

Falsey wrote:

rudderless wrote:

Falsey wrote:Do you write for Eurogamer?

What's that got to do with anything?

Why cant you answer the question?

I can. I do occasionally write for Eurogamer (much less than I used to, actually; I do more for Edge these days). I still don't see what that has to do with anything.

Actually proto is right there. I've never had a reply from any of them.

I'm going to be excluded as i'm not worthy of a club for man children? I'm sort of flattered.

rudderless wrote:

Falsey wrote:

rudderless wrote:

Falsey wrote:Do you write for Eurogamer?

What's that got to do with anything?

Why cant you answer the question?

I can. I do occasionally write for Eurogamer (much less than I used to, actually; I do more for Edge these days). I still don't see what that has to do with anything.

It was purely to sate my own curiousity, thanks.

Something Fishy wrote:Actually proto is right there. I've never had a reply from any of them and their views are really not as important as they think they are.

I'm going to be excluded as i'm not worthy of a club for man children? I'm sort of flattered.

I don't think anyone thinks their views are that important. They just enjoy writing about an exciting and progressive medium rather than pissing and moaning about it on a forum. If you think games are for man-children, then why are you on a forum slagging off a profession dedicated to that medium?

Falsey wrote:

rudderless wrote:

Falsey wrote:

rudderless wrote:

Falsey wrote:Do you write for Eurogamer?

What's that got to do with anything?

Why cant you answer the question?

I can. I do occasionally write for Eurogamer (much less than I used to, actually; I do more for Edge these days). I still don't see what that has to do with anything.

It was purely to sate my own curiousity, thanks.

Well, Eurogamer was an obvious port of call for me to provide examples because it's a site I read regularly. I don't write for them as often as I'd like to, so it's not like I'm trying to promote the site, if that's what you're intimating. But you can find equally fine stuff on Edge, The Escapist, Gamasutra and many other sites. If you don't find stuff worth reading, you're either less interested in the medium than you claim, or you're not looking hard enough.

rudderless wrote:

Falsey wrote:

rudderless wrote:

Falsey wrote:

rudderless wrote:

Falsey wrote:Do you write for Eurogamer?

What's that got to do with anything?

Why cant you answer the question?

I can. I do occasionally write for Eurogamer (much less than I used to, actually; I do more for Edge these days). I still don't see what that has to do with anything.

It was purely to sate my own curiousity, thanks.

Well, Eurogamer was an obvious port of call for me to provide examples because it's a site I read regularly. I don't write for them as often as I'd like to, so it's not like I'm trying to promote the site, if that's what you're intimating. But you can find equally fine stuff on Edge, The Escapist, Gamasutra and many other sites. If you don't find stuff worth reading, you're either less interested in the medium than you claim, or you're not looking hard enough.

I wasnt intimating anything, just wondering. I thought you were some sort of Nintendo writer or something at some point. Fwiw, Im not fond of Edge and never bothered to read Gamasutra because of the silly name. The Escapist used to have these videos of these dudes who discussed areas of the industry on like a cartoon format, the lead had a smurph-like voice. That was ok, though I havent been there for some time to watch it. The less said about Yahtzee the better.

And I think the final point about not looking hard enough probably has some grounding. I have no desire to scrounge about and search for something worth reading beneath mountains of dirge because it simply isnt how Id like spending my time. I think it also has the effect of further distancing me from the thing that I used to love because I honestly have no urge to coat myself in the gooseberry fool that its presented with.

That's the thing, though: you don't have to look that hard. And just because you don't like Edge, or think Gamasutra has a silly name (really?) that doesn't mean there isn't stuff worth reading on there. It's just that you're either ignorant or immune to it. Which doesn't really put you in the kind of position where you can fairly dismiss an entire profession in such a glib, condescending manner.

Gamasutra is a silly name though.

rudderless wrote:

Something Fishy wrote:Actually proto is right there. I've never had a reply from any of them and their views are really not as important as they think they are.

I'm going to be excluded as i'm not worthy of a club for man children? I'm sort of flattered.

I don't think anyone thinks their views are that important. They just enjoy writing about an exciting and progressive medium rather than pissing and moaning about it on a forum. If you think games are for man-children, then why are you on a forum slagging off a profession dedicated to that medium?

steady on.

a few comments is not slagging off.

calm down Rudders.

and because I'm a terrible man-child sometimes. i wouldn't spend so much money on this crap if i wasn't

You said it was "a club for man children". I hardly think that's a glowing endorsement of the profession.

rudderless wrote:That's the thing, though: you don't have to look that hard. And just because you don't like Edge, or think Gamasutra has a silly name (really?) that doesn't mean there isn't stuff worth reading on there. It's just that you're either ignorant or immune to it. Which doesn't really put you in the kind of position where you can fairly dismiss an entire profession in such a glib, condescending manner.

It would appear Im not the only person facing the same issue here though. Its easier for you to pick out what you'd deem as fine examples of work because its your industry, its an area you are constantly involved and immersed in and as such, finding what you'd deem quality content isnt much of a struggle.

I however, am not in the industry and have to either gobble up what comes at me via mainstream media or actively seek out content from what often feels like progressively insular sites or forums.

rudderless wrote:You said it was "a club for man children". I hardly think that's a glowing endorsement of the profession.

don't be so sensitive. Blimey. It was a bit tongue in cheek but a bit serious too but so what.

if we can't take the piss out of ourselves and the hobby a bit then that's a shame.

Well, isn't that like judging all film criticism from Empire or Total Film? Or all TV critics from Sam Wollaston's column in The Guardian? If you're not prepared to be selective with your reading, then it's hardly surprising you're not going to necessarily see the best writing out there. I'm not saying games journalism can't improve, but equally, it's neither "a club for man-babies", nor "worse than those single paragraph movie reviews in the tabloids."

What job do you do, out of interest?

ok then. a club for man babies and the odd female. lets be fair about this.

rudderless wrote:Well, isn't that like judging all film criticism from Empire or Total Film? Or all TV critics from Sam Wollaston's column in The Guardian? If you're not prepared to be selective with your reading, then it's hardly surprising you're not going to necessarily see the best writing out there. I'm not saying games journalism can't improve, but equally, it's neither "a club for man-babies", nor "worse than those single paragraph movie reviews in the tabloids."

What job do you do, out of interest?

I guess it sort of is. I wouldnt read Empire or Total Film either.

Im a server tech/engineer.

I should probably qualify my single paragraph comment too by saying its because I wouldnt place much trust in either of them. The quality of the writing could be a beautifully composed piece of modern prose, but if its all gooseberry fool I dont care.